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March 29 - EdenOS Telegram Call - Meeting Notes

The notes below are from the Telegram call that took place on March 29, 2021 from 10:00 - 12:05 EDT.

These notes represent an attempt to capture the discussion, but of course one can only type so fast, so please forgive me if there are errors or innacuracies. Generally this should be fairly accurate however, but please correct anything in the comments.

I have deliberately removed any questions not related to EdenOS.

Beginning of Call:

EOScommunity.org has a new EdenOS roadmap. Very aggressive, quickly get things done, prove the concept, change the pace at which EOS is evolving. Gathering a group of 10-20 people to get together soon, and will start inviting from there to join Eden community. Goal of 1000 people in 3 months. Will require a lot of vetting. Dan is optimistic we can hit that goal.

Looking to answer questions on EdenOS, developing in the open, getting feedback early and often. Not a situation where Dan is presenting it this way and is the way it is. Looking to include community interactions.

Proposing using EOS RAMfee account to fund first iteration of EdenOS.

An NFT with your face is the indicator of EdenOS membership.

All EdenOS Zoom meetings will be recorded, and participated by real people. Once there are 100 people (from the first round) BPs will vet the results and if good, will authorize the transfer of funds via an MSIG to parties (elected folks by community). BPs have final say, to observe the process and are comfortable with how it unfolded.

Some of the funding after the first round will hopefully be used to automate the process in a smart contract. So in 2022 we do the next iteration of the process and fund it with inflation. BPs will again assess the process to be fair and ran smoothly, and then and only they will they fund with inflation.

Some discussion with the community on considering how to tweak it the current plan. IE propose to do 2 rounds in first year (6 months apart) vs 1. Under this model the RAMfee account would be split, half in July, and half in Jan. Then Again in July 2022 with inflation. Will give more time for folks to learn the process and less risk.

Another suggestion is a smaller group then 10. This way there is more time for each group to reach consensus in an hour long call. More time in Zoom meetings is important. One of the risks of smaller groups is those in a group (say 5) is how do you measure 2/3 + 1 consensus. If you have 5, you’d need 4 (with you voting for yourself). If 6 in the group then 4/5 of the remaining need to agree. So we would need at least 6 in a group. The plan is for a 1hr meeting, so if 6 in the group, each person gets ~10 mins to make their case. Not everyone will want to compete. Some groups will have more time in this case.

The RAMfees being considered are those that were collected early on and are not spent.

Dan is going to invite ~20 to start, then they will each invite. Being active in Telegram and contributing in the EOS community is how you increase your chances of being invited. We need to have control and vet the people involved. The culture of those in EdenOS will dictate where it goes. Speaks to the nature of true democracy from Dan’s book. All people come together to form a voluntary alliance. All new members have to be accepted by the existing group. Members can opt-in or opt-out. Want people who are not the type to take money and not do anything for the community.

Once a potential member gets through the video call, they get an NFT with their face on it.

Q: How to we ensure EdenOS is accessable to poorer countries, IE Argentena. A: We are starting with a Western-centric Eden community…need to start somewhere. Go through the process, learn, then other communities (broken out by language for example) can form. Each regional DAO (segmented by timezone and language for example) would have a slice of the inflation from the network. These smaller groups form a democracy of democracies. We want to separate groups to make them as autonomous as possible, as long as they are aligned with the base fundamentals. IE use EOS as a currency.

Q: What is the length of Zoom calls, only 1 hr or free flowing? A: This is still being considered…this has never been done before. The calls are going to be recorded. Need a video record of all people voting (for transparency). Dan expects most of the work will happen prior to the zoom meetings.

Q: What about a sybil attack? A: Sybil attack is mitigated by having Zoom calls as the same time. Also it will be difficult to get that many imposters into the EdenOS group. A history of invites will be logged so it would be fairly easy to see who let in the imposter accounts and trim them out. The point here is to play a game with people that we trust. Eden will have a process to remove bad actors. Placed in front of a jury of randomly selected members, and a vote will take place to remove the bad actor.

Zack Gall Comment: 10 folks in 1 hrs is 6mins each person. Not enough time to answer questions, and be able to judge someone’s character. Reducing to 6 folks will help this.

Q: Could groups be decided in advance of the call so prep work can be done? A: One option could be a month of deliberation and the zoom meeting is just the vote part after a group consensus was already reached.

Lets say its Dan and Yves from EOS Nation are in same group. We want both to go forward, but have to pick one. Its possible that of the 100 that get through and a $10k budget, some of those will still choose to support EOSNation or whatever the entity is that is active in the space but isn’t in your voting group per se. Each of the 100 that get through don’t need to represent themselves necessarily.

Where the money should be spent is a part of the process…hopefully using the wisdom of the crowds to allocate funds is effective. There will be inefficiencies. We need to accept these to get some of the benefits. Need to accept some losses as a cost of doing biz, and hope there are other winners that compensate for these. Attempting to achieve perfection is subjective. It implies an outcome. To achieve this you’re effectively asking to be put in control yourself. Best thing is we trust the process and then iterate to improve. Modularity in the community will help to ensure all values are covered.

Q: What about fund mismanagement by those that win? A: Each rep can decide what to do with the EOS, IE convert it to USDT vs hold as EOS.

Q: Can we prevent folks making stupid decisions with the money? A: We’re trusting folks who are elected with the money. Some people make bad decisions, but some make really good ones. Since this is subjective and not objective, nothing can be hard-coded to prevent this. The best we can do is keep people accountable.

Q: Will starting group provide a framework to use by others? IE treasure management best practices. A: Dan is working on a proposed set of vetting criteria, that is minimal but should promote the right culture. Goal to have a template to help guide the process.

Q: More details on the NFT from Eden. A: It can be traded. Its not clear what the point of the NFT is then in terms of providing Eden access (this is my own question that wasn’t brought up in the call…of if it was, I missed it)

Q: What if BPs decide not to fund this? A: It is a possibility, but 1000 people aligned would be a powerful force.

Q: How does EdenOS apply to real life communities. A: EdenOS is a real life thing since it will lead to real life spending. The Eden process can apply to any group of people…churches, governements, nonprofits…anywhere where you want a true democracy to make decisions.

Q: What if there are technical issues during Zoom call? A: Tech issues vs someone stubborn, can be the same concern. This is why we have extra folks to reach 2/3 +1 consensus. Part of being antifragile is that we can overcome this.

Q: Who will run Zoom? A: EOS alliance will host the starting Zoom meeting…then will assign breakout sessions from this central call.

Q: Building on BP question, is Dan concerned about Eden focusing on English only? A: Feedback has been positive. Somebody has to lead and prove the concept. Overcoming language and time zone along with other issues isn’t possible yet. Once this is proven, the other communities will be able to use the same tools.

Q: What is Brock Peirce’s role, he was being contacted. A: Brock is a cofounder of EOS alliance. Working with Dan to organize EdenOS and Social Media. EOS Alliance is the legal entity to represent this. EOS Alliance is here to serve, Brock is helping to make this possible. EOS Alliance is a non-profit.

Q: How can non-technical folks participate? A: EdenOS requires being a good judge of character but not much else technical. You do need to be able to use EOS as a currency.

Q: Can a website be created to help with less tech folks get over any hurdles? A: This is being done so that there are tools for folks to use.

Q: What is currently being worked on? A: Working on a EOS community website, targeting release in the first week of April. Will point CMC to this site, that is dedicated to EOS and onboarding new users. Currently CMC links to EOSIO and B1. Doesn’t explain what wallets to trust etc… Not going to be a deep website to start. Eventually will get funding to improve. Right now there is no community created landing page to represent the EOS community.

Domenic Thomas has being putting a lot of time into this, as well as Ray working on the website. Plus lots others…a very long list of contributors.

If you’re multilingual there is a need for that. Please reach out to Domenic Thomas @DomenicT in Telegram to offer support.

Q: Is there a conflict with the plans of EdenOS and B1. A: B1 wants EOS to be decentralized and independent. No lack of alignment.

Q: What about Account recovery on EOS? A: Decentralized account recovery was always baked into the design of EOS. Something like ClarionOS and EdenOS can leverage a social network for account recovery.

Q: What are Devs working on. A: Currently working on NFT system for EdenOS. Working to make EdenOS as easy to use as Facebook, Hive etc…

Q: Will other language/timezone be started from this initial group. A: They will need to bootstrap, but a framework will be provided.

Q: How does a graphic designer or petroleum engineer get involved. A: Offer your services for EOS. Petro Eng is harder. What you do for a living doesn’t matter considering you’re a human. You can do many other things to support EOS. At the end of the day we’re looking to build a new governance system that covers people of all walks of life. Not only about what you can build, but the people you can bring. Everyone can volunteer and collaborate.

Q: Will EdenOS be strict with the use of non-violent communication (NVC). A: NVC is a communication process. It just says we’re attempting express our needs and feelings in a non-judgemental way of communicating. Employing NVC allows us to reconnect. It is a tool to separate observation from judgement.

Q: What are EdenOS’ Core values? A: Values are difficult with a diverse group of people. In crypto, Code is Law → leads to a culture where you can’t trust anyone…in a trustless environment. Dan views the goal of building a maximum trust community vs maximum dependency. Contracts shouldn’t be about promises, they should be hard coded in a smart contract or relied upon one’s reputation. The ideal society would be very open (no need to lock your doors) as opposed to a prison culture. For EdenOS, integrity, not buying votes are important for example. Don’t invite anyone into EdenOS that you wouldn’t trust with the keys to your wallet.

Q: Any tests/simulations of EdenOS yet. A: we’re doing one right now. This is real-time experimentation.

Q: Would it be better to do even smaller durations to start…1 month, then 2, then 4 etc. A: If the money is too low of an amount, it won’t yield the same result. At too small of a scale the physics changes…the incentives change. It needs to be big enough that its meaningful that folks engage and try to cheat. There will be test round once EdenOS gets to 100 people, with no money on the line.

Q: What are the immediate next steps? A: Inviting initial 20 people to EdenOS. Asking them to invite 10 each to get to 100-200. Then will do a test EdenOS on Zoom. This will be presented to see how it goes with a group of highly engaged and committed EOS community members.


An NFT with your face is the indicator of EdenOS membership.

Hi ! I heard the whole call but I missed the part of having “your face” on the NFT membership token, I thought it may just be a regular NFT maybe with a logo or something, but not our faces … seems a bit much…

Thanks for the notes! its a great summary!

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Good point. I thought that’s what I heard, but could be wrong. In general I’m a bit confused about the point of the NFTs. I thought they were meant to be one’s “ticket” into EdenOS, but if they’re able to be traded/sold then that won’t be their purpose.

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Yeah, also if you get expelled I am not sure if the NFT can be taken away from you… unless they create a new kind of nft contract.

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thats a really good point!

When will all of stuff will be begun? Can’t wait :grin:

There’s certainly lots to be excited about! Things have already begun actually and Dan has started the selection process to invite the first set of the EdenOS members. Also in about a week there will be a new web page launched to support EOS on-boarding and help to educate people about the EOS ecosystem. Stay tuned!!