EOSCommunity.org Forums

April 5 - EdenOS Telegram Call - Meeting Notes

Call started at 10:05, moderated by Domenic Thomas (DT).

Questions were submitted in advance at Q&A with Dan Larimer - What question(s) would you like to ask?, and then new questions were posted in chat.

Please note, the notes below aren’t exact and are an approximation of what Dan and other’s said, with some minor sentence structure added by myself. Dan isn’t a slow talker so it is difficult to keep up at times :wink:

Today happens to be a big day for EOS:
Dan: So much is happening, the website is very, very close, will be published for preview in a day or two. Eden community is growing bigger by the day. Working to organize the kick off genesis convention. That call will take place later today, with people that are known and trusted and have been contributing a lot to make EOS great. This is the seed for the broader ecosystem. After this seed group the larger group invites will commence. Updates will come out over the next week.

Lots going on behind the scenes. EOS Alliance is coming back together. Have recruited people like Ted Cahall (former COO of B1) to help kick things off. Dan’s devs that are working with Clarion are building a UI for the NFTs for all the Eden members.

They are moving a million miles an hour. Dan meeting with BPs from China today to update on EdenOS and status of things. Getting great reception from the community…“band is getting back together again!”

DT: Encouraging folks to remain active over at forums.eoscommunity.org

One of the things they’re testing is a private registration form to link EOS accounts to Telegram accounts to help participate in EOS governance. Once EdenOS gets to 100 people a mock playoff for no money will take place. This to test the appropriate group size, length of call, and work out bugs. This could be as soon as a month from now.

DT: There is a lot more information coming out.

Q: What is the process to join EdenOS? A: Want people who are active in the community. Not just show up with 10 EOS and let me in. That would open us up to armies of people from potentially hostile communities. Definitely looking for people who are active and engaged in EOScommunity.org and Telegram. If interested there will be a form that one can access to indicate you are interested in joining EdenOS, and members can then reach out to those that have requested and are contributing. This is a learning experience. Slow growth is better than fast growth at this stage. Trust is a critical seed of the adventure. We all want to see EOS be successful, we want to see good, honest people using the funds. The initial starting group will be highly trusted people, providing infrastructure & wallets on EOS, and higher profile public personalities.

There was a discussion on requirements for real identity to be provided. What is real identity? Do we disclose government ID cards…NO. The intention with EdenOS is to be independent from any centralized providers, IE governments to enforce contracts. We’re not independent if we’re depended on government. There is a desire to standardize identity. The more we do to standardize this the more we’re going to centralize things, it’ll be more rigid, more fragile. What if someone does produce a government id but we get a fake one…who’s validating these? We want a system where people organically determine if someone could be trusted with funds. In your group of say 7 folks are you going to vote for someone who is an unknown or trust someone who has a provable identity. Trust someone with no EOS or provably has EOS and therefore cares more and has more skin in the game. The rules for Eden need to be super, super clean and immutable. The smallest possible set of rules. The rules need to be so simple that everyone can tell they’ve been violated and the solution is to go back to the basic rules. For EOS an example of an immutable rule is max 5% inflation. If a BP changed this, they’d be forked out. Simple rules that the community integrates over time. Dan suspects the community will evolve toward more publicly verifiable ids, reputation systems. These will be mutable rules that will change based on community needs. We want rules that will fit on a 3X5 card and those that enter EdenOS will agree to. Want this to remain democratic.

There has been lots of talk around the concept of rational ignorance and wisdom of the crowd. Rational ignorance is where a typical person can’t justify the time it takes to become an expert to then vote on something. If you’re not an expert on Blockchain, cryptography, community orgs, you really don’t have the knowledge to vote on these topics. The average voter is negatively informed. If you build a community governance around this you have a problem, because its not about the best answers, its about how people can be convinced…ie best propaganda. People don’t vote their own thoughts, but are directed by media.

The benefit of small groups in EdenOS is they only need to consider the 7-10 in their group and decide who best represents their concerns. This means we can identify new leaders from anywhere. If you have good ideas you will have an easier time to persuade people in your small group to be able to move on up. We don’t want a direct democracy where everyone votes on every issue. Everyone won’t be educated enough to make decisions. A playoff system is a better way to identify these people. Is this system perfect, no. Another alternative is to of course let the experts make the decisions…but then who decides who the experts are?

Compared to traditional government where we pick representatives, they go to congress and can do whatever they want and there is no accountability. They may get voted out…but later after much damage.

In EdenOS the power of an individual is limited to his/her budget. The defined risk is people run away with the budget they have. With politicians they can have much larger impact…go to war. We have a defined risk that we have to accept in order to get the efficiency of having leadership in positions to make decisions. The real crux of the matter is 2 people are stronger than 1, 3 better than 2, and 10,000 is better than less. If everyone in a larger group is pulling in the same direction they can get a lot more done. The purpose of consensus is to pick people who can select the direction of the community. We have to trust them. If we don’t we fall into chaos and lose power. We have to take risk to trust people in limited ways, with limited budgets. If we do that well EOS will thrive.

There is this competition between EOS and Algo on twitter. A criticism against EOS is its too centralized. Another is there isn’t a good team marketing EOS, reaching out to World Economic Forum or Google. We’re being criticized for being too centralized or not decentralized enough. The vision of EdenOS is we can come together and be truly decentralized in a democratic way, where people involved have maximum power. This way we can be a decentralized blockchain and benefit from coordinated action. Decentralized governance where no one has an incumbent advantage. EOS will be set apart with this level of decentralization and coordination.

Q: Will the list of EdenOS members be published? A: Yes it will be published. Currently there are 18 members, people like Alex from dfuse, Aaron from Greymass, Eyves from EOS Nation, Brock Pierce, Annabella, Zac Gall, Adrian from wombat, Crystal Rose, a bunch of devs (Brandon Lovejoy), Berto (not sure on the name) from EOS Detriot, Gia (not sure on the name) from Bancor. Not meant to be discriminatory, just limited by what can be tracked for now.

Q: Will this list of members include details about how they got into Eden (who invited them, which 3 existing members approved them, and which randomly selected elected official vetted them)? A: There will be Zoom calls for each new member interview. Those vids will be uploaded on ipfs, and NFTs provided for those on these calls. Everyone on a call will get a copy off the NFTs. Will auction off the NFTs. The new member agrees to the principals of EdenOS. New members will have NFTs issued to them. Video evidence and on chain immortalized NFTs will be publicly viewable. An interface is being built to have a membership page. There will be auctions for these NFTs. NFT itself is not a membership token. Your EOS account name is your access to Eden. The NFT is merely to show ones support of members by them holding their NFT card. If you don’t support someone you should sell their card. No other rights or privileges, other than documenting who invited who are related to these NFTs…these are more like receipts. Proof I was there, that I contributed, that I gave time and money. Those receipts in return represent reputation in the community.

Q: How does one get involved, google docs or ways to interact with the governance and documentation. A: Working around the clock to produce documentation. They will be posted. They are following EOS Telegram main chat. There is an EdenOS members only chat. Once you’re in, you’ll be entered there to get involved. There are so many TG groups best to engage in the main EOS TG chat. Ideally if you want to share ideas and prompt a discussion, post it on EOScommunity.org forums and cross-post in TG chat. One of the things we lost is great discussion in TG. These are lost in history and not indexable by Google. EOScommunity.org is the best place to put new ideas. Eventually there will be google docs or the like to help with this. But this is moving really fast with a bunch of volunteers, working full time to make this a reality, not a polished plan. This is real-time in public…you’re seeing the good and bad, it is an artifact of being on the leading edge. These calls are to facilitate communication and get feedback. Limited by Dunbar and number of hours in the day. Once Eden elections are in place we’ll have community reps that will help support sharing of info and ideas.

DT: the website will have forms for points of contact. One for EdenOS member questions. One for people building apps and how they might get involved to sponsor/support EdenOS. TG is hard to follow, but EOScommunity.org is most efficient for new ideas.

DL: Very excited about number of people looking to contribute. He is doing his best to help coordinate. We are a baby organization with 100’s asking “what can I do.” Need people to take an initiative, but they are doing their best to provide a method for people to participate.

Q: On NFT, who will be the owner of the NFT contract. Who issues and signs on issuance. A: Dan made an EOS account for EdenOS. A smart contract will be deployed on that account. For now it will be managed by Dan to issue new NFTs. Working with designers to create NFTs. Will be manual process at first, but will be automated via a smart contract that everyone who’s involved in the NFT will sign off on…yes this is the video, who invited me etc…

Q: Will the NFT contract be an MSIG of first leaders. A: Initially not MSIG. Instead trust but verify. Video will document this so can be checked. Once the smart contract is deployed to create and validate NFTs (sometime in the next 2 months or so) it will be automated.

Q: How will language barriers be solved for those who want to participate but aren’t great at English. A: One of the immutable properties of EdenOS is no community is able to get larger than 10k. This means there won’t be just one Eden. EdenOS is a template that can be used by many communities. Once the smart contract and template is in place, many communities can start, each operating independently and simultaneously. If they reach a certain state they will be accepted by existing EdenOS to be their own sub-community but a part of the whole EOS community. Best thing is to learn and duplicate the genesis EdenOS community for other languages. We are creating fractal communities. Liberty and independence need to limit the size of each level. It’s a good thing to have many communities.

Q: Explain the ideas around EOS as a currency considering it is also used for dapps. A: The vision is to maximize the power of each EdenOS community member. Independence requires its own currency, supply chains etc… For EOS to be independent we need our own currency that we can transact in. EOS has a huge opportunity to pick up where Satoshi left off for p2p digital cash. High BTC fees now prevent it from being used as digital cash. The resource model of EOS is the petrodollar equivalent.

Q: What are the EdenOS communities capable of? A: If we really wanted to change the world, and reintroduce democracy, what would you have to do? A political party is a group of people working together to take control of government. If we wanted to switch to a new system and eliminate the red and blue team we’d need a political party that takes no stance on abortion, gun rights, climate change etc… It doesn’t fight for solutions, instead it fights for a new method to reach consensus. The only platform of the party is belief in the process and then the people who are elected in the process take positions on policy. In the name of peace and collaboration, we need to do it this way. We have an opportunity with EOS to implement this process and via the EOS token, empower those that are elected. This could lead the power of EdenOS to be more widely adopted. This might seem like an interesting set of principals for a blockchain, but it could spread to society at large. This could lead to changing the world.

Q: Why is there no official website for EOS main net? A: EOScommunity.org is the answer. There’s a guy on the team Ray, who’s put in lots of hours into a website that has guides on how to buy EOS, wallets, etc… Very close to be pushed to community and currently under final review.

Q: Could EdenOS governance replace DPOS consensus? A: DPOS is a token weighted voting system to select BPs or then direct the direction of the blockchain. This will remain until the DPOS token holders vote to change it. EdenOS won’t change any of this without BP approval. EdenOS does provide an alternative way to pick BPs. You could vote for representatives who pick the BPs. You could potentially have no tokens involved at the base layer to select BPs. We could have a 2 houses approach with EdenOS being in alignment with token holders. There is a lot of potential to leverage these concepts to provide new forms blockchains governance.

Q: One question on the vetting process, could you please provide some clarity on how you see the vetting of a new potential member going? What kinds of questions, qualifications, and details will be asked? How will you mitigate from someone telling you what you want to hear to gain access even though they are being disingenuous? How will you establish “trust”? A: Relying heavily on folks already entered into EdenOS to invite the right people. Those that invite should be the first to notice irregularities of people they’ve invited. Perfection isn’t going to be possible. The more you aim for perfection the fewer number people can be involved. Follow the trust but verify idea. Types of things we’re looking for is people agreeing to the process. If we can agree on a basic process this gives legitimacy to the leadership, and therefore the rules are binding. What we don’t want is someone coming in and says “I don’t like this Higov process and want to go back to POS,” or is hardcore code-is-law minded. This would be counterproductive and like an invasion force. Looking primarily for people who will embrace the governance process of EdenOS and will do so with honesty and integrity. Judging these traits are subjective. Every time you invite someone you are changing the culture by including them in it. A house divided against itself cannot stand. This will be a very simple list of things to agree to, not some long list of dogma or belief system.

DT: Those in EdenOS, you should be inviting someone that you know, not just a random from a message board.

Closing: Great things are happening and Dan is really enjoying these calls. Dan would like to move these to a video thing in the future, that can be curated and shared. One of the benefits of these calls is to create a bunch of content.

These call will happen every Monday at 10am Eastern. Put questions up at forums.eoscommunity.org for future calls.

19 Likes

Great work on the summary. And in the future, a short video would be very helpful too.

5 Likes

Thank you! They are working on having these calls as video calls in the future, so those will eventually be available. A shortened condensed video summary of these calls is an opportunity for any aspiring EOS YouTuber to pick up…I’m considering doing something but I’m not there yet.

6 Likes

Has anybody reached out to Colin talks crypto to be part of this?

Exciting times ahead for EOS!

3 Likes

That’s great. Come on EOS community members

2 Likes

Hi, please react out to me if you need some free transcription software to help transcribing records.
My telegram: sammyyeung

2 Likes

Thanks for the offer, but I think I’m ok for these as I take the notes in real-time and not afterwards from a recording. A proper transcript might be good too, but I’m going to stick with these summaries and focus on a quick release post-call.

3 Likes

He’s been tweeted at so I’m sure is aware of EdenOS. He’s also bought back into EOS (based on TA only however) so time will tell how involved Colin becomes again with talking about EOS and what’s going on these days.

1 Like

This is all very interesting. I first hear about EdenOS on the latest EverythingEOS podcast. I’m excited for the future of EOS and I have a lot of respect for the work Dan is and has done. In the early Voice beta, I “voiced” one of Dan’s post about designing a decentralized constitution and it made me very interested in how we might create a truly democratic self government. It sounds like EdenOS might be it.

I’d be interested in becoming an EdenOS member but I’m not exactly sure what qualifies one to become a member, so in an effort to get to know the community better, I’ll be trying to increase my activity on these forums.

1 Like
1 Like

Thank you so much for these summaries. I’d like to start posting them with the community via the EOS Go channels, if you have any ideas on how best to do this let me know! I think they could be really useful.

He may change his mind in time :wink:

You’re welcome, and share away. You could probably just post a link to these or copy/paste the content. Go EOS!!